00:03
Claus Toksvig Kjær
I chose Søren Henrik Petersen's drawing of a tree.

00:07
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Growing up in the countryside, I always loved those gigantic trees, how old they grow, how much history they carry. The roots are talking to each other. It's a complete network. And the life they bring. We had this huge oak tree, and how many owls lived there when I was a kid. And it is a home for so many creatures.

00:30
Claus Toksvig Kjær
And when you just close your eyes and think of a tree, nature will make it much crazier than you can ever think or draw. Tim Burton, animator, director — I always loved his take on trees. And then one of my mentors said, think of that tree, then you go out and study nature and you will see that nature is even crazier than Tim Burton. Because it's real life, it's not something condensed.

00:54
Claus Toksvig Kjær
The fascinating thing for me is the branches that can go in any direction. I can always characterize them so they get a personality. A tree, it's like a person, it becomes a personality itself.

01:15
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
My name is Tina Jøhnk Christensen, and I'm the host of Danish Originals, a podcast series created in partnership with the American Friends of the National Gallery of Denmark. Our goal is to celebrate Danish creatives who have made a significant mark in the US.

01:31
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Today. Our guest is Claus Toksvig Kjær, a Danish animation producer and CEO. Welcome, Claus.

01:39
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Thank you so much, Tina.

01:41
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
We are very happy to have you here and I want to start by telling the listeners that you and I are friends. And our friendship started a few years back, actually ten years ago, to be precise, when you were nominated for an Oscar for best animated feature film for Song of the Sea, a beautiful film.

02:00
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
And I covered this event as a reporter. We met during a very significant moment in your career. What was it like landing in Los Angeles with this very exclusive invitation in your luggage and seeing the city from an Oscar nominee's point of view?

02:20
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Well, actually it was pretty amazing because this is what many filmmakers dream about. I hadn't produced something in that magnitude before, so it was also my first. And then for that to get all the way and get a nomination was crazy. And the whole thing that followed was a learning experience in how everything works, so we could put that knowledge into other films. So, pretty crazy.

02:46
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
I interviewed you for Danish media when you were nominated. Was the interest overwhelming or were you used to this kind of media attention and were you media savvy? And do you always become friends with the reporters who interview you? Or was I special?

03:03
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Well, let's take the last question first. I mean, since we're both Danish in LA, I feel I know I got friends with a lot of people just for the fact that we are Danish, both of us, when I meet them in LA. Because it's such a massive city and there are not that many of us. I felt that connection instantly, obviously. And you being from Odense, it's not that far from Jutland. So that's the first.

03:26
Claus Toksvig Kjær
And then, no, I was not used to that attention. I remember getting the nomination for Song of the Sea. I was in a classroom teaching, I think, and when I looked at my phone during the break, I had something like 19 unanswered calls from all kinds of press. So that was the first time I realized, okay, this is big for sure.

03:48
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Do you remember your experience around the Oscars when you represented Song of the Sea at this glamorous event with all the who's who in Hollywood? What stood out at the Dolby Theater?

04:00
Claus Toksvig Kjær
You are in a pretty significant party where so many people that you don't know but have watched or seen all your life are part of that event. I do remember Bradley Cooper. He was nominated for American Sniper, a Clint Eastwood film. I had a chat with him. And I think the most significant was Richard Linklater, who loved Song of the Sea and he came over and congratulated us.

04:28
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Richard Linklater is a director himself. When you are from Viborg in Denmark and you get to be invited to an event like this because you've done something outstanding, what does it make you feel? And were there moments at the event when you had to pinch yourself and be like, is this for real? Viborg is somewhere in Jutland, where you're from. And when I mention that you are from Viborg, it's because it's a small city.

04:56
Claus Toksvig Kjær
It's very small in comparison to LA, obviously. I try to take it all in. I didn't wanna have too many assumptions when I arrived because it can also let you down sometimes. You don't know what to expect. But obviously taking all in is mostly afterwards that you have to really collect your thoughts about really what went down. Because when you're in it, you just try to keep up.

05:19
Claus Toksvig Kjær
It also was my first huge event, so you get practice later on when you are attending more of them. But just to really appreciate that you actually made something that went all the way in there. I did remember that everybody was kind, everybody wanted to talk. We're all there for a reason. So you definitely feel you're part of a group that evening. And the people who hadn't watched Song of the Sea said, I'll watch it. And that was special.

05:47
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
You were up against big animation giants at this event. They have huge budgets for marketing and award campaigns. What did you learn about this whole campaigning machine while being part of this race? What did it teach you about the business here?

06:06
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Well, it taught me, also with the Cartoon Saloon and the gang, when you are up there, their marketing budgets are like the budget we had for the film. It's so mind blowing that we can make films for that money. You do need to promote or campaign your film to get in. But that was something a lot of people made fun of in a nice way saying, the fact that you're in this with your budget, shouldn't be possible. So they all congratulated us big time for that.

06:33
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
So you got a lot of respect from them.

06:35
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Absolutely. And I remember Don Hall, he directed Big Hero 6 from Disney. When you are in that group in animation, you do spend a lot of time together prior to the Oscars. We later became friends. He really loved Song of the Sea that I took very to heart. And he always said, you're an outsider. They ended up winning the Oscar.

06:56
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
And I can't help but mention that Flow actually won it this year, which must have blown their mind.

07:04
Claus Toksvig Kjær
I was so happy when I saw that, with such a tiny budget again. I mean, we've been used to nominations in the past, but never winning it. So, that is a huge triumph for European animation.

07:16
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
It was an amazing film. Absolutely amazing. So beautiful.

07:21
Claus Toksvig Kjær
In fact, Ron Dyens, whom I produced Long Way North with way back just after Song of the Sea, that's his film as a producer. So now he has an Oscar. It's fantastic.

07:35
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Song of the Sea was a very beautiful film made in collaboration with an Irish company, and the story is taken from Irish folklore. I know you worked in Ireland for a while. How did you get to collaborate with this company in a cross-cultural collaboration?

07:53
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Yeah, I worked for them, 2006 till close to 2008, production managing. I was never a producer at Cartoon Saloon. But I had a pretty good relationship and got along with the guys greatly. There were five founders of Cartoon Saloon back then. And today I think there are three in the company setup.

08:15
Claus Toksvig Kjær
But back then, there were five and we all got along really greatly. And when I moved back to Denmark, we kept in touch. And there became this opportunity to say, hey, shouldn't we co-produce with you guys since we know each other already? Yeah. That could work out. And then obviously easier said than done, you also have to finance the thing. But that was a good start. Tomm (Moore) was like, sure, if you can find the money.

08:39
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
And you did. I mentioned Viborg before. Your business, your company, Nørlum, is located in Viborg. Is that where you are right now? And would you mind describing your surroundings to our listeners? I see a poster from one of your films, I think, in the background.

08:56
Claus Toksvig Kjær
That's Long Way North. It's such a big contrast. We talked about LA before, obviously connecting to the Oscars and also working. In COVID, I got so depressed because I couldn't travel. So I counted the stamps in my passport, and I realized in nine years I visited LA 53 times. And that's a lot of trips to LA from small Viborg. I think the biggest contrast is the silence.

09:22
Claus Toksvig Kjær
So wherever I'm back in Viborg, I get this peaceful vibe where, because we don't have the same population, we don't have the same traffic, there's so many different things. It's calm, so I always love that. I love LA for different reasons, but it's just a funny contrast living here. And when going to LA that much and you get all the intensity, which is great, it's a filmmaker city. And then coming back to Viborg and everything just slows down.

09:51
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
And you are in an office in Nørlum. Where are you sitting right now? And talk about the company. How many employees do you have? I guess you're off from work now. I assume they're not around you, but talk a little bit about that, the space you're in and Nørlum itself and the employees.

10:08
Claus Toksvig Kjær
So Nørlum is a funny company because we don't have X amount of people constantly. Because every film is different. When you co-produce or produce films here in Europe, it takes different types of people and also the amount of people. So I just worked last year on a TV series that was 26 episodes and we had 17 people on the production.

10:33
Claus Toksvig Kjær
And now we are on a film called Dante. We only need seven people. The rest are in Norway and Sweden, because you co-produce and you put the money in different places. So it's an upscaling, downscaling way of working. We do have a setup where some people are permanent, but that counts only three or four people.

10:57
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
How does that work? So you hire people in and out, or do they freelance for you? How does it work then?

11:04
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Some of them are freelancers, but other people like to jump on projects. So one we use a lot told me that I don't think even if we could hire her permanently, she would not prefer it, because she likes jumping from project to project. When she doesn't work for us, she can do something with people in London. She can do something with people in New York or in LA.

11:23
Claus Toksvig Kjær
So that opportunity to always strive to be challenged, I think a lot of people, they enjoy that. It's a pretty funny setup. We are not Disney where you have X amount of employees. We find the people and try to cast them just like actors for a certain job.

11:37
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Some people are exceptionally good at acting those subtle movements in animation, some people are extremely good at action. So it depends on what you are looking for. And some of the films are more action, some are less. So we try to find the best group of people for each project.

11:56
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Nørlum was created in Viborg in 2010. This is only five years before the Oscar nomination. Talk about what led to the creation of Nørlum. How did the seeds for this company start?

12:11
Claus Toksvig Kjær
If you turn back time, the industry that we are in is changing a lot all the time. Back then, the only way to get experience to get a feature film was to do short films. So we did short films back then, where you get the same kind of work feel, obviously, but it's much less risk taking because it's only 20 minutes, or it's only 15 minutes.

12:34
Claus Toksvig Kjær
So you can make mistakes, which I feel is important when you don't have a lot of experience. You can test yourself on short films. So that's something we did back then, and eventually got strong enough to feel, okay, we could do a film like Song of the Sea with the friends of Cartoon Saloon. It's fascinating how things evolve.

12:52
Claus Toksvig Kjær
I have to share this story because it is something that stuck with me when we were supposed to do Song of the Sea, and there are other co-producers than Nørlum. And not to mention names, but one of the co-producers had done over 50 films and we'd done zero at the time in that caliber.

13:12
Claus Toksvig Kjær
And there was a meeting in Ireland and the question came up, which is always to ask, is okay, why don't we take another company who's done more films just to be sure, which is a fair question. And Tomm Moore, love him for that — we believe in Nørlum and what they can do, and they will be a great company in the future.

13:32
Claus Toksvig Kjær
And then the guy said, but what's the guarantee? And Tomm said, okay, if they don't finish, Cartoon Saloon will. And the guy was like, fine. Sure. He basically gave us that chance, because it's always difficult to do the first film. For any producer, the first film, Oh my God, is so difficult.

13:50
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
And for those who don't know, Tomm is a pretty big shot, right? Explain who he is.

13:54
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Tomm Moore directed three films, Song of the Sea is the middle one, and God knows, is it five Oscar nominations? I can't count anymore, for various projects. So he's very high up there in the industry.

14:07
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
So his words meant a lot.

14:09
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Absolutely.

14:10
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
You are the CEO, Claus. I know you as a very nice man. I would say extraordinarily nice, actually. I assume that you are nice as a CEO too. What kind of a leader does Nørlum have? What is your philosophy in leadership?

14:29
Claus Toksvig Kjær
I think it also depends on how big we are as a group. Obviously it's easier to control seven people and find a way and get the passion behind it, than when you're 65, obviously, which is the biggest we've ever been. So that requires a different skillset as a leader.

14:45
Claus Toksvig Kjær
I've always thought about this. In my generation when I grew up, if you were good enough at what you did, you would get promoted. That's the way it worked, not necessarily thinking about leadership capabilities at all. I don't know how many I worked for, I'm sorry, not leaders.

15:02
Claus Toksvig Kjær
They were good at something, but they were horrible at communication and stuff like that, because that's a different kind of skillset. So I think maybe I took that to heart and thought, okay, what they weren't able to communicate, I had to be different because I understood what it was to be on the other end of that, where you have no one to go to, basically, but you'll get blamed for it if it went wrong.

15:25
Claus Toksvig Kjær
So today, luckily, there's much more awareness of this. And there are courses, even, and ways you can improve yourself today as anything you want, which I think is definitely valuable. But back then when I grew up, there was no education, there's no degree of being a CEO.

15:43
Claus Toksvig Kjær
And I think that can be challenging for a person who doesn't want that attention. Just to make one example. I had a director on one project who hated talking to people. And I'm sorry if you're the director and you have to talk to a lot of people, that's the wrong job for you.

15:59
Claus Toksvig Kjær
And so every communication went through the production people and the manager and a lot of things were missed or misunderstood when that happened. I was taught by working early on in the industry of how I shouldn't do, and of course I make mistakes too, but just to be upfront and honest about it is always best.

16:18
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
So what is a good leader? What qualifications does a good leader have?

16:23
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Definitely listening. If there's an issue, address it right away, don't wait. That was another thing that I tried on productions before, oh, we don't have time for that now. But the problem just grows. When it's also a difficult topic to solve because we all have different ways of solving that thing and we are all different as people, I do think listening is super important.

16:44
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Understanding a pipeline is important. You can't go in doing this film with the wrong pipeline. In animation, particularly, it takes so long. You also need to know some technical aspects as well, even if your job is not in production. At least knowing something about the way animation works and the process and pipeline, making sure everybody is good at what they are or feel that they are moving ahead.

17:12
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Does it come naturally for you to be a leader?

17:15
Claus Toksvig Kjær
I think I had to learn a few things along the way. I never thought of myself as one. But like I said, being under someone who does it wrong is a great lesson.

17:27
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Yes.

17:28
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Because then you really know how you want to do it better, all the things that they didn't do right. And the funny thing is, it is people who do the work, right? You can have the fanciest pipeline, the biggest budget in the world, it comes down to all the people. And especially in animation, you can be 200 people. You really need the people. Those are the ones who make the film.

17:47
Claus Toksvig Kjær
It's as simple as that. I've seen teams where everything is just connecting and people are passionate, everything works. You can solve the biggest problem in the world. And you can solve no problem when the team's dysfunctional. That's the thing. Nothing works. So it's down to the people. In animation for sure. I guess and also in live action, it's the same.

18:14
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
So you have to make sure that people are doing well. Let's backtrack a little, Claus. Were there signs in your childhood that you would work in animation? Were you the kind of child who would draw all the time? And how did you find out that it would become a career choice, that you would make animation into a career?

18:37
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Yes. For me, it started really early on. My mom found a drawing when I was four years old because I signed it. I said, I want to do cartoons, cartoons are fun. So for me, it was always there. And I drew a lot in classes, and I must have, sorry, pissed off a lot of my teachers because I wasn't really paying a lot of attention. My mind was elsewhere.

18:59
Claus Toksvig Kjær
I just loved drawing to the extent where it got frustrating for all of them. I have so many notebooks with drawings. I have no background in this. I have no family that are animators. My family is in farming, in agriculture. And the rest of the family, we actually have a lot of hairdressers and teachers.

19:15
Claus Toksvig Kjær
There was no one who did film, let alone animation. So it took some time before I found the right people that could help me get into the right places and become an animator. But otherwise, I knew it from the beginning.

19:32
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
You graduated from The Animation Workshop in Viborg. What kind of foundation did this give you, and how important is this Animation Workshop in Viborg to the animation business in Denmark?

19:48
Claus Toksvig Kjær
It's super important. Was it 1999 or 2000? It got this vibe of being one of the best schools in the world, which is crazy because it's in Viborg. And the connection I got was, I met a guy from Dreamworks called Rasmus. I think my dad maybe talked to his dad, and then realized, here's a guy, his son is in animation, and he went to Viborg.

20:11
Claus Toksvig Kjær
So he told me, Hey, you don't have to travel to London, you don't have to travel to the US to get a degree. You can do it in Viborg. I was like, really, that's even a possibility? And the school at that time had really strong teachers. I had teachers like David Todd, who was a Pixar animator, Dan Duke, who was the supervising storyboarder at Pixar.

20:29
Claus Toksvig Kjær
We had Miguel Fuertes who was on Avatar, the first film, and so forth. Richard Williams, who was a legendary animator, sadly passed away. And when you get input from these people because they wanted to teach at The Animation Workshop because the school was so good, so that's why they preferred that, which is also crazy.

20:48
Claus Toksvig Kjær
When you think about the size of the school compared to other schools, they laid the foundation. So when you get that kind of mentorship, you're almost already connected in a way to the industry. So that was a really good lesson for me, that okay, we actually have a pretty good start here. We get information from some amazing people that also are connected right into the industry.

21:12
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
I mentioned before that you were at the Oscars with Song of the Sea. You've been to many other award shows. You've been to the Annie Awards, which is the animation awards here in LA. You've been to the Golden Globes.

21:27
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Yes.

21:28
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
What is your impression of what these kinds of award shows mean for the business? How important is it for you as a Danish animation businessman to be represented at these bigger award shows in Los Angeles?

21:42
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Whether you want to admit it or not, it's a quality seal somehow. Somebody compared the Oscars to if you're a chef, you go for a Michelin star. Somebody also said, if you have to be honest, it is just an award. You can still make your film, you can still do great stuff without it for sure.

22:01
Claus Toksvig Kjær
But I do agree that the attention after the Oscar nomination was different than before. It's also led us into working with Disney, and before that we hadn't worked with them. So I will say it gives you some kind of credit, like a Michelin star, that okay, you have some kind of quality that people like or want to be associated with.

22:19
Claus Toksvig Kjær
So I can only say, sure, it definitely makes a difference. We're not a sport. So if there weren't these events, we would never really cherish that. So, different in sports, you can win trophies and in animation and in film, it's awards.

22:37
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
You mentioned you've been to Los Angeles many, many times, over 50. How would you describe doing business in Los Angeles?

22:45
Claus Toksvig Kjær
There is a lot of business because LA, the whole city, the whole vibe is essentially everybody thinking, breathing, film. I remember all the times I Uber-ed there, everybody's a scriptwriter, everybody's an editor, just Ubering in their spare time. Or going to a restaurant where there's a waitress, they want to be an actress.

23:03
Claus Toksvig Kjær
It is everywhere. So trying to get in there was something that Nørlum tried for a while, and pitched to Netflix several projects as well, or getting a door in at Apple. And all those things were definitely something that we always thought was interesting to try out. It is hard to get around that, when you are in film or in animation, like I am.

23:24
Claus Toksvig Kjær
I have a lot of friends there. So once your network broadens, like mine when I was there so many times, you do get to know a lot of people and they all have one thing in common, they love film. So I would say for any studio who could break into that … but it's also a difficult one to do.

23:40
Claus Toksvig Kjær
If you are a big singer, right? and only in Europe, once you break into the States, it is just significantly different from being a European star to a US star. And I feel the same with film. It's just a different level. And obviously there are so many talents out there.

23:59
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
You mentioned you worked with Disney. How did that come about? How does a small company knock on the door to Disney and make a deal with them?

24:09
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Sure. So prior to that, I'd known people at Disney for a while before that happened. Obviously Don Hall, getting to know him. He even came to Denmark after winning the Oscars. He gave a speech at The Animation Workshop. I did ask him if he had anything to do with that and he said, no, I actually didn't.

24:23
Claus Toksvig Kjær
We were nominated for Song of the Sea, and a little later after that we were doing Big Hero 6: The Series with Disney. Obviously they liked Nørlum, they loved the animation we did. It was a 2D project. We do 2D, it was a fit there right there. But it took some time to get established.

24:40
Claus Toksvig Kjær
This is what I found out. Once Disney wants to work with you, they may not have the project for you yet because they just decided now. So they have to wait until there's room for you and that can take some years. So the interest may still be there, but you may not hear from them for a couple of years.

24:59
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Interesting. You are a producer, who I believe is very hands-on from what you've explained to me in the past. What kind of advice would you give to other producers who have to navigate the American market?

25:15
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Definitely be open-minded because you never know who you run into. I've been at parties where it wasn't even a system where we actually had to pitch something where you just meet the right person. And you connect somehow and the chemistry is right. Oh, let's talk when we get back or we keep in touch and suddenly we have a project together.

25:35
Claus Toksvig Kjær
The openness there is important. You just never know what can happen. Not to say that you always have to be ready to pitch, because that's also a little bit weird, but grab an opportunity if it's there. And like I said, LA is full of film people, so the chances you're gonna run into some are pretty big.

25:52
Claus Toksvig Kjær
And then of course it's important to stay true. There's definitely stuff I said no to that is not the DNA of Nørlum. So in the past, I've said no to some projects. Even if we could have done them, I didn't feel it was the right home for them. And I think that's also important because there's nothing worse than to take something that you can't really deliver in a way.

26:12
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
How significant would you say that your close ties to the US and your network here have been to your career personally? What do you think you have learned from it?

26:25
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Oh, a ton. Also being more outspoken. I think in Denmark, especially in Jutland, you shouldn't talk too much or you shouldn't make too much awareness of you because we call it Jante Law.

26:36
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Jante Law, which is a law that's meant to keep you down.

26:40
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Yeah. Which I think is absolutely ridiculous. So the freshness of coming to the US, and especially LA is that no one has that thing. So they all try to talk the best they can or promote the best they can, which is different from where I grew up, where you're not supposed to say too much.

26:55
Claus Toksvig Kjær
When I first came to LA and didn't want to brag too much about what we did, that doesn't really work in the US because they're like, oh, okay, so you're not that good, huh? I was like, okay, man, next time I go out, I have to really tell about what we do because I've been holding back in a way that maybe I'm used to, but not here.

27:15
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Here I can actually just be honest about what we've done and what we achieved, and that went much better when I did that thing, because then they understand, oh cool, okay. That's what you do. So yeah, a different mindset, I think, helps.

27:28
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
I mentioned Long Way North and Song of the Sea, and you've made a feature film about Calamity Jane also. Talk a little bit about why you wanted to work on these particular films? What made them stand out, storywise, style-wise, from an animation producer's point of view.

27:49
Claus Toksvig Kjær
For me, it was the story. When I read the script of each of those films, I knew this would be exciting to be a part of because the story moves me somehow. When we were getting a lot of scripts sent to us sometimes, especially after the Oscars, you get a lot of people who want to get in touch and they send you a script.

28:07
Claus Toksvig Kjær
You could read maybe 50 to 100 scripts in one year and only one or two are good. And that tells us a little bit about how difficult it is to make a good script from beginning, middle, and end. Most scripts take so long to do because they don't work and you have to rewrite them. And I even saw a script that has 73 drafts. I understand this is super hard, I'm glad I'm not a writer.

28:31
Claus Toksvig Kjær
When I read those films, I didn't have that many notes, which is a good sign. And so it wasn't super hard to be involved. When I like something, that's the easy part. Now the hard thing starts. I have to finance my part, because otherwise we can't work on this. And luckily enough, both Calamity and Long Wind North got financed.

28:55
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
None of them are particularly Danish. Song of the Sea was an Irish folklore. Long Way North, remind me what that was about. Calamity Jane was a western. It's been a while since I've seen them, Claus, but I've seen them all.

29:11
Claus Toksvig Kjær
They're both French. So Rémi Chayé, who is a super talented director because he can animate, do backgrounds, better than the rest of the crew. It can be also intimidating to work for a guy like that because he can do all of the things, and direct. So he's French, but the story of Long Way North is Russian.

29:32
Claus Toksvig Kjær
And actually when Long Way North was developed, they tried to go with a Russian co-producer at that time because it made sense. And they almost got the person, and then it fell through somehow, which is lucky for me because that's how I got involved.

29:48
Claus Toksvig Kjær
So I was at Cannes that year and I think they just lost that one and they reached out and I read the script and said, this is fantastic. Okay, but you have to do it fast because we're going into production really soon. This is probably the quickest film we ever financed, knowing that it had to work that year. I didn't have years of preparation for that one.

30:08
Claus Toksvig Kjær
I met them in May and I think we went into production in October or something, which is fast for animation. So six months financing is unheard of in a way. I've never done it since. I don't know if it could even be possible today. But we had a different film fund back then called the Copenhagen Film Fund. It was a regional Copenhagen fund where we had that advantage. That was vital for Long Way North, and how we raised the budget.

30:39
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Is it hard to be a producer?

30:42
Claus Toksvig Kjær
It is difficult. But that's also why you have to like it, because just as you can get all the finance, you can also not get it. So there's always that flip of the coin, that we can all love the script, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it can work out. In Denmark, you have to apply to a lot of these funds, and when I mean apply, you need to tick a lot of boxes. And if you tick enough of them, then you go up against a lot of other films.

31:07
Claus Toksvig Kjær
You don't know, because those are early films like ours. So you actually have no idea who you're up against, but you could be up against a Lars Von Trier film in the same scheme in the DFI. And obviously, they only have that much money and they have to decide who gets what. It's not easy.

31:25
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
That's government funding, right? Which is different from the US.

31:30
Claus Toksvig Kjær
It's super rare in the US.

31:32
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Yes.

31:33
Claus Toksvig Kjær
And then I think that's why we call it cultural funding, 'cause it has to tick one box that it's got cultural interest, both in France or in Denmark or anywhere else before they even consider it.

31:45
Claus Toksvig Kjær
That being said, I also love a lot of those films that are mainstream, but if you're too mainstream, you don't qualify, because the funding is not made for a Mission Impossible film. It would be really difficult, if you have had a film like that, to get cultural funding in Denmark.

32:01
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Yes. Do you have private investors too?

32:04
Claus Toksvig Kjær
We do. But they're rarer in Europe. There are for sure, but not like the US. The US market is so gigantic that you can't really compare.

32:15
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
What are you working on right now, Claus? What keeps you in the office these days?

32:22
Claus Toksvig Kjær
So we have Dante, which is a Swedish, Norwegian, Danish co-production. I love it because it's Scandinavian. Since we are in Denmark, we should do many more of these. It's only the second actual feature film. We also did The Ape Star, which was the first, with the same director and same team. So we're going back to a lot of people we know and a lot of the artists we worked with before. So it's fun.

32:45
Claus Toksvig Kjær
I can't reveal too much, but it's a bank robbery mystery. And there's a rat in the film, which we revealed at Cannes. It's like a hustler rat, voiced by Stellan Skarsgård. So we have some great actors involved. And David Dencik is doing another voice in our film. So we are blessed with great talents.

33:05
Claus Toksvig Kjær
And Stellan and David did something we also did on The Ape Star that our director Linda loves to do, which is unusual in animation, but in live action they do a lot. She tapes them while they voice it, and she wants them to do gestures and act it. So the animators have reference for that.

33:21
Claus Toksvig Kjær
So we get those reels of Stellan doing rat faces, and it's actually pretty helpful. And they do sound on the mic as well, which is also really rare because normally you separate the sounds from the voicing. So she likes that method acting that goes right into Dante as a film.

33:41
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
So that means that the animators will watch and then they will animate it accordingly.

33:46
Claus Toksvig Kjær
They have a reference. Sometimes you have a reference, but you think, okay this choice is different. But a lot of times they also use that reference as an acting point of view and say, okay, what Stellan did here was great. So it marries a lot more the characters than when I'm used to working where it's much more separated.

34:04
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Both things can work. Sometimes you don't even notice it, but I love when it's much more playful. And also, Linda recorded them while they're together so they could play off each other as well.

34:16
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
That's also unusual because they always talk about being separate booths and they're not seeing each other and they meet after production when they do sound on animation.

34:25
Claus Toksvig Kjær
In animation you can cheat but I think it's great that you have them both and they can act upon each other. And you can also hear sometimes in the response, they overlap and then make something that wasn't necessarily scripted.

34:39
Claus Toksvig Kjær
It can be a great win for you to have creative people taking their take on it and see how far can they go and what can you use that wasn't even in the script originally. So that's something that is very unique. Disney has done that with Robin Williams, who was the genie in Aladdin.

34:55
Claus Toksvig Kjær
When you get such a force of nature, you have to just forget about the script, just go crazy. But you are right, most times you separate the voices and you just do the lines, and you're in and out, and that's easy. But here, let's get more out of them because they want to, they're there. They want to act the best they can, even if it's for animation.

35:16
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
And Claus, my final question for you. What is still on your bucket list? What do you still want to achieve career-wise?

35:24
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Well, we have a ton of IPs that our writer Jericca Cleland created.

35:30
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
And IPs are intellectual property.

35:33
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Yes, stories or concepts that we spent five, six years working on, that finally, almost, are ready to pitch. So that's the next step for Nørlum. We love co-producing, it's been fun to have an ownership in a big European film, but the next step, I feel, is stories that we created in Nørlum, and then we have to find co-producers, I guess, the other way around. That's definitely something that I'm working on.

36:00
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
So, more creative control?

36:05
Claus Toksvig Kjær
And not only that, but also it is definitely a different kind of vibe when this project is your baby. That's the one you nurtured from the beginning and it grew into this. That's pretty fantastic. Now we just have to finance it and make it real. But that is something special, right? For every creator.

36:22
Claus Toksvig Kjær
So that is definitely a change. And then the fact that also I cut a little bit down my time, because I was out for a little while, so I had to adjust to the new me, which is not working 70, 80 hours a week, which I loved in the past, but I have to now be more careful about planning my work.

36:40
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
You had a little health scare.

36:42
Claus Toksvig Kjær
I had a little health scare. And it took some time to recover. And I'm still not quite there, but it's getting better as you can hear. But that was a big scare and that took some adjustments because obviously I couldn't for a while work like I used to. That was impossible.

36:58
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Can I ask you — was there anything positive that came out of that? Did you find a more balanced work and private life? I'm just curious if that changed anything for you positively.

37:10
Claus Toksvig Kjær
It did, it changed a lot. The biggest positive I take from it is in the best of ways. You never know how long you have actually, it is not like you are born like a Cola can with an expiration date. You don't know. No one knows. But the fact is, in the past I used to say, I'll do that later, I'll do this in ten years' time.

37:30
Claus Toksvig Kjær
I didn't know if I had ten years because when that happened, I may not have survived that thing. So the doctor, I think I told you, 15 minutes too late, I wouldn't have been here now with you. That was a wakeup call for me. Something could have gone wrong, traffic-wise.

37:45
Claus Toksvig Kjær
I was super lucky that I got there in time. And that changed my mind as, okay, listen, I can't think like that, I can't just say, oh, I'll do that later, or, this is not important. Now if it's important to me now, I'll move it forward and I'll make it a priority. Because I don't want to have lived wanting to have done those things I could have done but didn't do because I thought I had plenty of time.

38:07
Claus Toksvig Kjær
So that's something I constantly think about and that definitely changed my game. When you don't know how long you have, you shouldn't wait on the most valuable things. Do it now. Even if it sounds like a cliché, I really mean you have no guarantees really.

38:21
Claus Toksvig Kjær
And even if I could know, I didn't wanna know either. So that's a fact, we are born and we are also gonna not be here at one point. Don't postpone the things that you think are most important, which I used to do sometimes.

38:33
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
On that note, a very important note and message "do it now," we say thank you so much to Claus for being part of Danish Originals. It was a true pleasure to have you, a dear friend of mine, on Danish originals.

38:48
Claus Toksvig Kjær
Thank you for helping me be part of this. It's been a pleasure for me too.

38:53
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
Thank you so much, Claus.

38:56
Tina Jøhnk Christensen
For today's episode, Claus Toksvig Kjær chose Søren Henrik Petersen's "Studies from Nature with Regard to Landscape Drawing by S.H. Petersen," no. 5 or "Studier efter Naturen med Hensyn til Landskabstegning af S.H. Petersen," nr. 5 from 1816 from the collection of the National Gallery of Denmark.